October 27, 2005
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The subject choices this week on Socrates Cafe are “What is an excellent death?” and “What is love?” I found the choice to be difficult, not because I have so much to say about those topics, but because I am not sure that I really have anything very interesting or profound to say. I did choose to write about an excellent death after some internal debate.
Having worked in health care for some 35 years now, either as an RN or as an educator, I have come to the conclusion that our culture and particularly the health care profession, does not handle death very well. It is often seen as a failure, something that should not happen and is to be prevented at all costs. When you think about it, that really makes no sense, because it is the one thing that we all have in common and that we cannot avoid. We are all going to die.
If we accept that fact, then death should not be a topic of horror and something to be avoided, yet for many people it is. Why is that? It is a natural phenomenon.
Several years ago, I took a class sponsored by the thanatology program at the University of Minnesota. It was really a very good class and one of the speakers there particularly impressed me. He said that one of the reasons that we fear death so much in our culture is that we do not value life. That really struck me as a very wise statement. The point was that we do not welcome life. We limit family size so that we can have more possessions because we think that that is what makes life worthwhile. In the end, though, we cannot take those possessions with us. In order to enjoy them, we must continue to live. To die, then, becomes to leave behind everything that we value.
I know that I have made some choices that favor possessions over life. My husband and I had 2 children. We did that deliberately because we thought that it would make it easier for us to give them the lives that we wanted them to have. We instilled that value in them, also. Our daughter has 2 children and does not plan to have more. Our son has 1 child, and we are not sure whether or not he and his wife will have more. Does that help to increase material wealth? It certainly does. Does it show a value for life? I am not sure. Do I think that valuing life affects the way we see death? I definitely do.
I do think that there are other factors besides limiting family size that show a lack of value for life. In our culture, I do not think that family size is going to increase. We are socialized to have small families and that is ingrained in us. But we can look at how we manage our personal and family lives. We can examine our values.
I think that the first step towards having an excellent death is to have an excellent life, and the first step towards doing that is to really get to know yourself. What are your beliefs? What is important to you? How do you act on those things? How do you value life?
One thing that I have realized in life is that people are more important than things. Having friends in your home is more important than having a spotless house. I am not always very good at reaching out to people. I admire those who are. I have learned, though, that the people that I hold dear are very important and that I need to work to maintain my relationships with them. I need to put the time and effort into maintaining the contact and scheduling time together with them. If I have to let other things go in order to do that, then that is the way it has to be.
I need to look at what makes life meaningful to me. My husband and I like to travel. We like our family to go with us. We also like to go with friends. Traveling provides us with wonderful memories and shared experiences that cannot be taken away from us. It is a high priority for us. It is part of what makes life worth living.
I think that contributing to other people in whatever way we can is also a way that we value life. My husband is better at that than I am. Each of us has talents that need to be shared and it is up to us to find ways to do that. We are not always aware of the ways in which we affect other people, but we surely do affect them. I think the most profound effects that we have are often from the simplest actions. If we have tried to make our impact on others positive, that goes a long way to making our lives worthwhile and our deaths excellent.
To me, some degree of spirituality is also important. That may take the form of an organized religion or just a set of personal beliefs. It may include a belief in a higher power or just a concern for personal growth and goodness, including a concern for others and for the world around us. In any case, it helps us to be the people that we want and were meant to be, again making life worthwhile and showing a value and appreciation for it. If a person’s belief system includes a belief in an afterlife, life becomes a continuum and the focus shifts away from the act of dying to the continuation of living. No matter what the belief system, though, attention to personal spirituality brings inner peace, and peace is a quality that contributes to an excellent death.
Intellectual development is also important in living an excellent life. That is what drew me to Socrates Cafe. I value discussion and sharing of ideas. It develops the mind and the soul, making me a better person. I need to make time for it. It is another pathway to an excellent death.
So, to me, the concept of an excellent death does not include the time or conditions surrounding that death. Rather, an excellent death is one that follows an excellent life. An excellent life is one in which the person has given thought to what is important and has made the effort to do those things, whatever they might be. It is different for each person and it is not necessary for us to understand the choices made by others. It is only necessary to make our own choices thoughtfully and with purpose, to welcome life and to value it. Then, when it is time, death will be excellent.
Comments (28)
ms. nancy, well-writ. i love reading stuff with substance… you made my day (and it’s only 7:49a!)
Interesting you talking about the choices we make with the size of our families as its more to do with money than enjoying life . Like you we only had 2 children but sometimes I wished we had at least one more . I was one of 4 and I am very thankful for that . People who are part of a large family are more balanced than people from small families I think
Well said.
Good stuff, Nancy! I think more people should put this kind of thought into living and dying. I’m sure we would have a better world becasue of it. I think what you give and leave of yourself to other people is the most important thing. After all, those are the people who will really experience your death the most.
Very well written!
RYC: I haven’t really considered illness as a natural matter. But it really is, huh? LOL. I don’t know.. I’d just like to die how I was born.
RYC: I don’t know where you drew from my follow-up that people who don’t believe in afterlife don’t have concern for others. I never criticized anyone, but stated that afterlife is something that needs to be considered. People can make up their own minds, I’m not going to think any less of them either way.
RYC: thanks for clearing that up! Here is what I typed in response in my blog:
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. No, you didn’t insult me, but I hoped you didn’t think I was trying to insult those who don’t believe in afterlife.
I agree that they have other motivators for living a good life-I was just throwing out the philosophical question of where did morals come from, which I didn’t pursue since it would have taken me way off topic.
Thanks again for responding
Thanks for sharing. Yes, I think an excellent death must be linked to having lived an excellent life. To me, being able to tell those I love what they mean to me, and to feel I left the world a slightly better place for having been here.
Nicely said. I often look at my present in terms of the end of my life. What will I wish I had spent more time on when I get to the end of my life? Then I try to order my life into more useful, fruitful patterns. We can never do it all or have it all. Choices have to be made along the way and priorities set and then we have to live with what we decide. I don’t think I’ll regret not having a bunch of “things”. We don’t own things, they own us. I don’t want things to own my time, my energy, my life. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Somehow, I almost missed your post! I’m so glad I didn’t. Thanks for joining us again this week.
Very interesting post.I very much agree with about what makes an excellent life..and one thing you wrote caught my eye in particular …..An excellent life is one in which the person has given thought to what is important and has made the effort to do those things, whatever they might be. It is different for each person and it is not necessary for us to understand the choices made by others…I remember a long time ago shifting from drifting into being deliberate about my life….and I also agee with the second point.you make in this quote…we all need to respect our differences..excellent post!
Very well written. We all have our own ideas, thoughts, perceptions–how wonderful that we can share. I have found it difficult to come up with just one definition on ‘excellent,’ although I did it on my site. What I marvel at, is the fact there are so many different definitions and perspectives-for each of us. It is by saying, doing and sharing-we can enrich our lives from looking at others’ perceptions, and accepting them. ryc: Thank you, I’m glad you did join!
If death is the ending of everything, then excellence can only be in the dying. You can live an excellent life, as my uncle did whom I wrote about a couple of blogs ago and have the most appalling drawn-out death of Alzheimer’s, tube-feeding etc etc. It seems, too, that if you have Alzheimer’s its pretty much irrelevant if you have any belief system or not, or should I say, had, thought long having fled from their degenerated brains.
Having an excellent life is something else again, and from that point of view I did enjoy your blog. I always enjoy your blogs. Am I bitter? Yep. (However I also chose the topic An Excellent Death, but instead of waxing philosophical, which was the point, I told a story as I often do).
You’ve written a very interesting argument
At first glance, it seems sound, but some of your premises may not be true (for everyone, as you’ve already qualified). Is it always true that someone who values life (ie. having more children) has an excellent life? Isn’t it sometimes true that those who have more children (seemingly valuing life over posessions) suffer extreme hardship? Especially in the case of women, not even considering single women, who “value life,” if we look at women through the ages that did not have the option to curtail their fertility, we may notice that a tendency towards procreation did not always allow the woman to live even a good life (and in some cases and cultures (inuit for example), infants were disposed of for the very survival of the family). But as you mentioned, the idea of what makes a life excellent is subjective. For many women, I’m not sure valuing life, as you’ve put it, constitutes an excellent life (someone might truly value their family and still suffer great hardship). On the contrary, for some women, isn’t part of having an excellent life the right to autonomy? Here’s the question: How do we get from the premise that valuing life (meaning the desire to procreate) is necessary to achieve an excellent life which is necessary to achieve an excellent death? (I’m focusing specifically on this part of your argument because you mentioned it’s what most impressed you about the speaker in your thanatology class.)
Interesting post. I agree that it is important to examine our lives. However, death can come in any fashion and will not necessarily mirror the life which we lived. Our culture has much to do with it. To die in battle, which usually meant to die gruesomely, was excellent to the Samurai. In our culture, we all know of people who are hooked up to machines in order to eek out a few extra years. Is such a death excellent? Is such a death a true reflection of the life that has been lived?
Just a few questions come to mind.
Also, I agree with the speaker at the Thanatology course in part. I think that we do value life but not in the proper way. While it is true that the average couple can acquire more “things” if they have fewer children, I think in today’s society, it is necessary and most thoughtful for couples to limit the number of children they have. Having more children requires more resources and, naturally, parents want the best for all their children but that might be hindered if there isn’t enough to go around.
I like this!! I remember in nursing school, dealing with my first dead body (and I guess really the only dead body – to cover for the morgue). It just seemed so wrong with how we dealt with it. I agree that the medical profession doesn’t deal with death very well.
Such good points!! SO wellwritten. Yes, we should welcome life and value it!!!
In response to Simone_De_Beauvior and Czolya, the point I was making was not that everyone needs to have larger families in order to value life, but that each person needs to look at his or her life and see the ways in which we value people and relationships as opposed to material possessions.
Most people do not choose the time, place, or method of death for themselves, so I think that the way to have an excellent death is to have a life that makes death acceptable. I strongly agree with the speaker I heard that a low value for life makes death much more difficult.
“we fear death so much in our culture is that we do not value life. “———-I like that but would have to question you about having the children part…… I think it’s pretty subjective….isn’t it kind of reaching to promote the idea of having a large..or any size family for that matter as better values than someone who doesn’t have any? Does welcoming and embracing life mean someone else’s or our own? I think we can embrace life & should live it to it’s fullest…..wouldn’t what makes it so be different for us all?
Thanks for posting this …it is fun to see what everyone thinks!
I totally agree with you that the key to an excellent death is an excellent life. Sometimes it takes awhile to figure that out, but better late than never! Excellence is measured by quality, not time. ;o)
Hi! Looks like I was asking my question earlier when you were online answering it for those above me…..sorry I missed out on your answer then…..didn’t mean to be repeatative and cause any frustration!
great post have a nice weekend.
Your response was really appreciated, not only because it clears up the questionable premise of a large family being necessary to having a good life but also because your point of view is unique and worth some thought. Material posessions do enslave us, but I hadn’t thought of them enslaving us to the point that it would cause a fear of death. I’m not sure you’ve developed this argument enough to prove it conclusively, though. What I mean by proving it is that something in your argument is missing; it isn’t developed enough. It does not necessarily follow that valuing posessions equals fear of death. It also does not necessarily follow that valuing posessions equals not valuing life. But it is an interesting point to consider. Thanks for sharing it
Thanks again for stopping by
and explaining your points. I suppose we could find more to this argument to “prove” it, but it is enough to consider it for now. I do value your conclusion and will keep it close to remind me of the importance of family and love. For now, do you have any suggestions for next week’s topic?
This is an excellent post. I really like that quote and will steal it to use with my students. I also really like your essay generated by that quote. You are a very wise woman, my friend.
I’m afriad I really don’t understand the speaker’s statement that we fear death because we don’t value life.
Also… is limiting the number of children you have a bad idea? Rather than looking at that in a way that shows people are hungry for material posessions, how about looking at that in a way that shows some people are responsible and will only have the number of children that could be provided for. Don’t tell me that if you go into a poor neighborhood on the south side of town that those people value life more than your own children because some of those families have 8 kids (unfed and uncared for) while your grandkids are loved and provided for. It’s a matter of responsibility, I think. Then again, I’m a 21 year old kid… I don’t know very much. That’s just my humble opinion.
Thank you for your comments.
~Zach
Thank you for your comment. I enjoyed your post as well.
Hello,
You have made me think , a veruy good post . I enjoyed your veiws.
Take care and hjappy weekend.
Peace and Love:)
Thanks for your suggestion. To simplify, let’s go with “What is morality?” this week. It’s incredibly complex alone (enough for 16 weeks of college class to devote to it, as I’m feeling the pain now)
We can reconcile the two another week. Okay?