January 25, 2006
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Socrates Cafe Topic #30: Is there sanity in committing suicide?
That’s a very broad question. To some extent, the response would have to depend on what is meant by suicide. In all contexts, the response would be heavily influenced by the respondent’s value of life, which is, in turn, determined by his/her religious, moral, and cultural values.
I come from a background of Judeo-Christian tradition which teaches me that suicide is morally wrong. I also am an RN with an interest in psychology and, since much of my professional life has been spent teaching, over the years, I have taught many classes which involved discussion of suicide. My nursing background tells me that to deliberately end life is not the goal of health care. My interest in psychology has taught me that suicide is a very sad event that does great damage to the people left behind. So where along the spectrum of belief does all of that leave me?
Even though my religion teaches me that suicide is morally wrong, I cannot condemn people who commit suicide. To me, suicide is a desperate act. I do not think that a person who has never come to the brink of suicide can understand why someone would make that choice. I feel that it is very sad that someone does not get the help and support that they need to help them cope with life so that they do not have to make such a decision. Unfortunately, some people are not able to cope even with help. If those people choose suicide, they leave behind friends and loved ones who often must struggle with guilt as they seek answers to the question of whether something they said or did not say could have made a difference. In any case, such a suicide is a very sorrowful event.
Suicide that springs from personal despair is not the only kind of suicide, though. Today, there is a movement to allow physician assisted suicide for terminally ill people. I have a hard time with that. I think that sometimes health care providers seek to prolong life when in reality all they are doing is prolonging death and I do not think that that is responsible health care, but I do have trouble thinking of doctors and nurses actually providing the means to end life. On the other hand, I am not a terminally ill person in severe pain or in terrible fear of severe pain. I have had the experience of caring for my mother in my home during the last 2 years of her battle with cancer. While I would not have wanted to do anything to make her life end earlier, I certainly do know what a strain that was for me and for my family. I know how long it took us to recover our lives. I also know how much my mother suffered and by the time she died, all of us were very ready for it to be over. I am not sure that I would have the strength to go through what she went through. I don’t know how I would handle that situation and I really hope that I never find out. I would not condemn a person who chose to end their suffering.
There is a type of suicide that I cannot comprehend at all, and that is the action taken by suicide bombers. I understand that they are dying for a cause and that they believe that the cause justifies the death. I do not come from a background that can accept that, however, and I cannot wrap my mind around it at all.
So, in my opinion, suicide is a very complicated topic. There are many kinds of suicide. People who take their own lives have many reasons. I don’t think that suicide is desirable, but I do think that each person is ultimately responsible for his/her own life. None of us really knows and understands what another person faces. We just all have to hope that we will be able to handle the challenges that life presents. There are no quick and easy answers to this very difficult question.
Comments (19)
thank you for this oppertunity to allow me to assist in help with socrates cafe this week. i hope i fullfill this duty over and beyond the expectations.
Weird question for such topic !
Michel
I think you’ve explored the subject thoroughly, and very well.
I think you did a fantastic job expressing yourself on how you feel about suicide. I never want to find out if there is sanity in suicide because it my hope that anyone that feels the need for suicide seeks counseling first.
I just wanted to let you know that I have replied to your comment on my site.
Like you, I think there are many issues about suicide that I will never comprehend nor feel capable of judging. I have heard that some types of suicide is an act of revenge. This happened to a friend’s grandaughter who was rejected by a boy friend and hung herself in their garage. She was pretty, intelligent and had a good job..go figure. I came close once on a drive back from Charleston when the highway was empty and thought to send my car off the top of a hill and heard my mother’s voice, “You know you don’t get things right so you’ll end up a cripple.” It stopped me cold! Since then, I have taken the drug route and am currently on Zoloft.
Meds for depression can be a wonderful thing. They can save a lot of lives.
Hi, Nance1. Thanks for your comment on my site. I do believe that a good support system of family and caring friends helps to make a difference in whether or not a person takes that final leap to the next stage. Sometimes because they make you know your own worth; sometimes because, as with Sojourner_here, the words from your family harken to you and make you less bold. For me, it is some of both. I have been depressed – to the point of needing medication. I was in depression for a long time before I knew how bad it was. I did not linger on thoughts of ending it all, I did not stay in bed and wallow (sp) in self pity. I lost the bounce in my step and the sight of beauty around me. I made excuses for myself. I forgot my self worth. When I missed a family Baptism, family being so important to me and mine, I recognized I needed help to get back to who I am. I know that compared to whatever it is that makes a person end their life, my experience is next to nothing. But I must admit, it was because my family has always loved me and expected the best from me and taught me that I am worthy, that I did not go into that good night, and finally knew when to seek help.
Why doesn’t that work for everyone? I don’t know. I have been near, and now read about, enough suicides to know that love is not enough. I don’t know what is.
I don’t know why love does not work for everyone, wazwhy. Support and treatment don’t work for everyone, either, and neither does really wanting to survive. I sincerely believe that clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain that is treatable. Maybe those who cannot be successfully treated have a more serious imbalance. Not every suicide can be prevented, though, no matter who tries and how hard they try. The sad thing is that those who try to help are often left behind with tremedous guilt and a sense of failure.
Very thoughtful. On assisted suicide – I agree that health care professionals should concentrate on saving lives and helping people live, and I don’t like the idea of divided loyalty on that issue. But it must be very hard to watch people and their families suffer.
Last I checked (which was like a decade ago, so maybe my info’s out of date), the Catholic Church was against assisted suicide, but they found pain relief, even if fatal, acceptable. That is, if the amount of pain killers necessary to relieve someone’s pain was also enough to kill them, then it was ok to administer it, as long as the intention was not to assist suicide.
Do you think that’s ethically distinguishable from assisted suicide? Or just splitting hairs?
GaudyNight, because part of my background is that I am an RN, I have a real problem with people who withhold pain medication from terminally ill people either because they fear addiction or because they fear that it may cause death earlier. Aside from the fact that research shows that neither of those things is really a problem, in my opinion, it is ethically inhumane to make someone suffer when it is possible to keep them comfortable. I see it as completely separate from assisted suicide. I think the time comes in the care of any dying person when the acceptable outcome of care is death and that death should be as peaceful as pain free as possible. That is not to say that it should be intentionally caused, but only that it is not rational to think that it can be prevented.
Hey
Im back online and checking the Cafe topics out, missed you guys! 
You brought up some of the same points that I did, but you didnt adress if it was a SANE choice. I thought that was the point of the question, but I could be wrong!
In my post I talk a bit about the suicide bommer type suicide, but in a slightly different context. Let me know what you think.
~Mia loving her interent connection
Your response is very unique in that you have a long history working with people who are terminally ill as well as a very intimate history taking care of your mother as she battled cancer. I am very sorry to hear of your loss and that you had to endure such a tragedy in that way.
When we speak of suicide, do you consider deaths which are easily avoided to be suicide. For me, this includes alcohol-related deaths, drug-related deaths, deaths in sports, etc.
I’m not sure if this is suicide because to live is to perpetually take risks. What do you think?
I do not consider deaths related to smoking, alcohol, drugs, and other self-imposed risks to be suicide because I do not think that they involve suicidal ideation. There is actually some pretty interesting research to indicate that in some people, such behaviors are actually related to increased fear of death. The reasoning is sort of “If I can do this and not die, that proves that I am not going to die.” That is very irrational, but then many things that humans do are irrational.
Your reply brings up a good point, Nancy. Is suicidal ideation a prerequisite for suicide? When Y has occurred, does X have to have been present prior to Y occurring in order for Y to be Y? What I mean is, does a person have engage in suicidal ideation prior to causing their own death for that death to be considered suicide? This question springs out of the memory of a Spring afternoon when I was a little boy. I asked my church minister if a person who commits suicide goes to hell. I don’t remember much except that he posed the question of what is suicide. Is a death as a result of drunken driving a suicide? Is a lung cancer death suicide?
I really think that suicide has to be the result of a deliberate act designed to end life. That is actually the dictionary definition. Anything else would fall into some other classification. That does not mean that people who bring about their own deaths through actions such as drunk driving or smoking are not responsible for their actions. It just means that it is not suicide.
I do think that it is possible to use perfectly natural means to commit suicide. My mother-in-law was not a happy person and did not enjoy life. She developed breast cancer and chose not to tell anyone about it or to go to the doctor until it was far too late for any treatment. She only lived for 2 weeks after making her illness known to the family and seeing a doctor for the first time. Actually, I think that those 2 weeks were good weeks for her. She committed suicide by knowingly allowing herself to die.
I have finally replied to your comment on my site… sorry for taking so long.
Thanks for replying, Nancy. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to host Socrates Cafe in the foreseeable future. I’m beginning to bounce all over the place and don’t know when I’ll get the chance to settle down enough to take on that responsibility.
Thank you for the offer, though. Take care! -Colin
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